Phishing for Answers: An Enlightening Conversation with Tolgay Kizilelma , CISO

In this episode of Phishing for Answers, I, Joshua Crumbaugh, CEO and founder of PhishFirewall, sat down with cybersecurity veteran Tolgay Kizilelma, a seasoned CISO with a PhD and three decades of industry experience. Our conversation delved deep into the human side of cybersecurity—how the interplay of awareness, education, and behavior can be just as critical as the technical defenses we deploy.

Breaking Down the Human Element

One of the central themes we explored was that cybersecurity isn’t solely a technical challenge. Tolgay recounted his immersive journey from managing IT across various industries to realizing that the greatest challenges come from the people using these systems. As he explained, “technology is only a part of the equation—it's really about the human issue.” This insight set the stage for a broader discussion on the significance of training, leadership, and cultural awareness in combating social engineering and phishing attacks.

Social Engineering and Changing Behavior

Our dialogue touched on critical topics such as:

• Social Engineering: We discussed how hackers employ psychological tactics to trick users and why traditional technical fixes often fall short. Tolgay emphasized that “you can patch the systems, but you can’t patch human nature,” making awareness training all the more vital.
• Role-Based Training: We explored how effective security awareness programs need to be customized. It isn’t enough to run generic training sessions; they need to be relevant and practical—whether it’s educating the workforce or even reaching out to vulnerable groups like the elderly. In our view, making cybersecurity personal (“what’s in it for me?”) is essential to foster a culture of alertness.
• Gamification: We delved into the benefits and limitations of gamifying security awareness. Gamification can transform what is traditionally seen as a mundane and often repetitive training process into an engaging, interactive experience. As Tolgay pointed out, it helps users to not only understand the risks in a visual and interactive way but also to develop vigilance that becomes second nature.

The Evolving Landscape: AI, Generational Differences, and Proactivity

Another major topic on our agenda was the evolving nature of cyber threats in the wake of rapid advancements in artificial intelligence. We compared current AI advancements to past milestones in technology—highlighting both the enormous benefits and the daunting challenges:

• Generative AI and Automation: While AI has opened new frontiers in efficiency and innovation, it also brings risks. We discussed scenarios where simpler, cheaper attacks become possible due to automation.
• Staying Ahead Through Proactive Education: Both of us stressed the need for a proactive approach rather than a reactive one. Tolgay shared his perspective on embedding cybersecurity principles early—not just within organizations, but also at the school level. Starting with young learners ensures that as they grow, responsible cyber habits are already in place.
• Bridging Generational Gaps: Our conversation also highlighted that while the younger generation is inherently tech-savvy, the older employees and community members might require different strategies and training techniques to stay safe. Tailoring training to fit various roles, backgrounds, and personalities is key to a comprehensive defense strategy.
  
  
  Quick Links:
• ‍https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuacrumbaugh/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/tolgay-kizilelma/
• https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/phishing-answers-enlightening-conversation-tolgay-kizilelma-inwpe/
• https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cyber-psychology-connection-futureproofing-with-ai/id1769446914?i=1000690938537

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